You’re Not Boring—You’re Just Invisible: How Founders Can Build a Personal Brand That Opens Doors

Summary

In this episode, Jess Jensen discusses the critical importance of establishing a digital presence for executives and business owners. She emphasizes that being invisible online is a significant risk and provides a roadmap for creating a personal brand that reflects authenticity. The conversation covers the importance of defining an audience, clarifying values, creating engaging content, and building relationships through meaningful interactions. Jess also shares practical tips for managing time effectively to create content and highlights the advantages of using LinkedIn as a platform for professional growth.

Takeaways

• Your digital presence is essential for business success.
• Invisibility online poses a significant risk for leaders.
• Engagement with people yields higher trust than brands.
• Define your audience to tailor your messaging effectively.
• Clarify your values to create a compelling narrative.
• Authenticity in content creation fosters deeper connections.
• Engagement in comments builds community and relationships.
• Time management is crucial for consistent content creation.
• LinkedIn is a powerful platform for professional branding.
• Offering value upfront is key to building trust.

Chapters

00:00 The Importance of Digital Presence

05:59 Defining Your Audience and Narrative

11:45 Engagement and Building Relationships

17:48 Leveraging LinkedIn for Personal Branding

Links

https://www.copilotcommunications.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicakjensen/

Free High-Converting Website Checklist: FroBro.com/Checklist

Transcript

jess-jensen.txt
Jeffro (00:01.825)
If you're the founder or face of your company, your digital presence isn't just optional, it's your moat. In this episode, I'm joined by Jess Jensen, founder of Copilot Communications and former global market leader at Microsoft, Nestle, and Adidas. Jess now helps executives and business owners stop hiding behind their brand and start showing up like the real interesting imperfect humans that they are. We're going to talk about the risks of being invisible online, how you can create a digital presence that reflects your actual voice.

and why a polished ghost written strategy can sometimes do more harm than good. So whether you're active on social media already or you're just getting started, Jess has a roadmap to building trust and credibility in a community that kind of grows with you. So I'm excited for this conversation. Welcome to the show, Jess.

Jess Jensen (00:46.158)
thanks for having me. Good to be here.

Jeffro (00:48.884)
Definitely, you know, and a lot of people listening probably heard multiple times that you need to have an online presence or personal brand. We've had other episodes on this show where we've talked about personal branding. But I think for a lot of people, it still feels like a foreign or inauthentic thing for them, you know, and you have a line, most executives are invisible online. That's not humility. It's a risk. So I'm curious to hear from you, your thoughts on why you think so many leaders stay quiet when they've heard so many times they need this brand.

Jess Jensen (01:18.766)
Yeah, you teed it up perfectly. It's a great point that there still are a lot of leaders that are either completely invisible or they might be on digital platforms, but they're really just watching, right? They're sort of in the voyeur mode versus the content creator mode. I think that 80-20 rule isn't far from the truth. In fact, even still today in 2025, where 80 % of the people are, if they're there, they're watching and 20 % are actually creating.

So my recommendation to all the leaders I've worked with and the clients I work with now is that I want us to move into that 20 % and eventually I want that 20 % to grow. The idea that not doing anything is sort of either humble or kind of neutral is really an antiquated way of thinking about it. I think it once was the case, but it's not today. Building a personality and a brand, it's not about

sort of wanting to be out in front all the time or wanting the airtime when there's maybe not much to say. It's actually, you know, it's doing a couple of things. It's, building a personality around you as a leader. And often you're the face of either your division or your company. So you are part of the brand. No question. it's also a way to augment traditional or sort of, you know, brand marketing, which is a lot of my, background.

Money will always get poured into media buys and big events and Vegas and, you know, out of home and all those things. And that's great. And I'm not suggesting that we stop doing those things, but you can augment a lot of that with standing up your leaders. Because the reality is that we see 3X engagement with people versus brands. I mean, we inherently attach ourselves and feel like we can trust people over corporations. So

It's not an or, it's an and. And so if you think about it from a business perspective, you're really helping open doors for sales conversations, helping recruit future talent, and then also building a little bit of a buffer or an insurance policy if there is a crisis at some point that you have to face and your company maybe needs some positive advocacy out there to its benefit.

Jeffro (03:42.569)
So you mentioned how big brands do branding, right? There's company brands, you work for Microsoft, Nestle, how building a personal brand is a little different. Obviously, you said there's overlap, you don't necessarily stop some of those things, but can you talk a little bit more about what the difference actually is? Because I've seen some companies, they just pay to have their CEO build his own personal brand, and he happens to be talking about their company while he's there, but that's not necessarily the same thing as the company brand. And so how do you...

How do you find that life?

Jess Jensen (04:14.143)
Yeah, right. How do you build more of a portfolio approach? So certainly, I think one of the things that you see a lot of leaders do in the beginning when they're out there online is they become kind of a PR machine. And so to your point, they're almost duplicating the efforts, which that's a whole separate podcast, but like the corporate effort shouldn't be a PR machine either. But let's just assume that in this situation.

They're kind of duplicating by saying, look at this new product launch. Look at this amazing customer event. We just expanded into it, you know, three new States or whatever the news of the day is. Um, and it's certainly, don't mean to say that the leader should not be talking about the company or the business. Of course, that's going to be a piece of their narrative platform. Um, but it shouldn't be a hundred percent. It frankly shouldn't even be 70%. Because a.

that you already have the company handles and voices covering that, right? So again, we don't need to duplicate efforts. We want to augment it. And then B, like I was saying earlier, if we inherently are attracted to people and we want to have relationships with other people, not brands, then we want to know a lot more about that person. We want to know, for example, what kind of leader they are.

what kind of culture that they've been trying to build or they hope to build in the future, challenges they faced, or maybe nonlinear aspects of their background that then ended up working out well, and here they are today. We want to hear their origin story. And so I always encourage my clients to have a narrative platform, again, kind of, which is a fancy way of just saying, what are the themes we're going to talk about on a regular basis and repeat those in different ways and formats?

But let's have that platform that, includes the goodness of your company, but at least has two or three other aspects that speak to who you are as a full 360 person.

Jeffro (06:14.767)
it. Okay, well that makes sense. And I like that the way you approach this is systematic and strategic and so you're looking at the types of posts that you're doing. You have percentages based on what you're talking about the company or your personal life or whatever. Obviously I'm sure a lot of those are kind of guidelines, but I do want to walk through your five-step framework. So the first step is defining your audience of one. Tell us about that and why that is helpful.

Jess Jensen (06:38.645)
Yeah, and I don't want to take credit for this. That line comes straight from Seth Godin, who, if you're a marketer, you're real well immersed in his work and I love him. So this is just simply the idea of before you create any content or you get up on a stage, it doesn't have to even be a digital platform we're talking about. You want to define who your number one audience is. Who are you trying to attract with your message?

Jeffro (06:44.862)
Of course, yeah.

Jess Jensen (07:06.317)
And it doesn't mean that you're not going to have multiple audiences, almost all of us do, but we really want to focus in on our most important, our audience of one. And so if you can even build a bit of a persona, right, you can, you can think through how old are they, where do they live? Maybe what kind of company do they work for? What do they do on their weekends? Like what are their pain points and challenges? Really try to build a personality and in many cases, even write it down so that when you or your team

is creating that content, you're really thinking about that kind of person and you're aiming your tone and voice as well as your actual content themes to what's really meaningful and really gonna bring that person closer to you.

Jeffro (07:53.105)
Yeah, and you can't really do that if you say, we help everyone, right? You already need to be a little bit niche down or focused on who you serve and understand who that is. Otherwise, that person of one is gonna be very generic.

Jess Jensen (08:06.603)
Yeah, right. It's that famous saying of differences sell, similarities don't. So if you're trying to attract everybody, you're attracting nobody.

Jeffro (08:16.379)
Okay, so then let's talk about step two. That's clarifying what you stand for in just a few sentences, right? How do people even start to do that when they feel like, we do all these things, right? Where do they begin?

Jess Jensen (08:27.915)
Yeah, and this is my favorite part of the work I do with my clients and the work I used to do when I was in-house. This is really the beginning of that narrative platform I talked about. so often again, there's usually three-ish pieces, plus or minus. And so this is clearly going to have a component that is about your business, your company, your division. And this can honestly be, this can be a founder, a small business owner, right? I run a frozen yogurt chain. I have a laundromat.

I mean, it doesn't have to be a large Fortune 500. A piece of whatever you're talking about is going to clearly be about what you're excited about regarding your business, right? Your eight to five world. Another piece is often around more culture, right? How you are as a leader, what kind of people that you really enjoy working with, how you build trust with your employees. So culture, culture stuff tends to be a piece of it. And then often there is a piece that is

more personal. again, maybe it's, you know, how you grew up or careers you had before this one that have kind of shaped who you are today. How you think about your life outside of work, whether you're a parent, whether you love to travel, right? People really want to see the full you. And I don't mean that you show everything and you talk about every topic. There's clearly some stuff that's personal for each of us that we want to maybe keep private. That's great. But

Clarifying what you stand for is rooted really in your value system and your priorities. And then we sort of shape that in this kind of again portfolio where we go, okay, these things are all both true to you and they accrue to whatever your business goals are.

Jeffro (10:18.662)
So I'm curious, as we're talking about this, was thinking, you mentioned people don't, okay, well, when you're talking to someone, this audience of one, what do they care about, those sort of things? We make some content for that, but that's only a fraction of the strategy, right? So why would they care about you as a person and your interests before they've had you provide value to them, right? So is there a,

a progression to that where you have to provide a lot of value upfront before you then start talking about yourself and they'll care. Because if you just talk about yourself all the time at first, nobody's gonna be like, okay, why this guy's not helping me in my business. So I feel like there's got to be a balance in the way you approach this so that yeah, you've helped them and now they can actually like you as a person too. And that's where the mode begins to form. It's not just helpful content, helpful content. Okay, I've heard that before helpful content. And it's not just

Okay, this guy likes soccer and he reads books and he likes these movies. Like, who is this guy again? You know, so it seems like an interesting mix.

Jess Jensen (11:20.993)
Mm-hmm.

Jess Jensen (11:24.939)
Yeah, you bring up a great point. I mean, I would use the analogy of an in real life scenario, right? If you go to a party, if you're the person that comes up and just talks about yourself the whole time, it's not going to last very long, right? That conversation is going to end and people are going to walk away. They want you to be interested in that. They want you to bring value in whatever shape that might be that fits your personality. Maybe it's a great story. Maybe it's, you know,

top three restaurants in the neighborhood that you just learned about. Maybe it's you're funny, right? It's humor. Like you have to definitely deliver that value in the beginning to engender some sort of trust and relationship with them and open the door to rapport. So value is paramount and you will never stop doing that, right? That's gonna be woven through forever, but especially in the beginning. And then I think over time, you can start to bring in some of your, get your value systems, your beliefs, you know.

One of the things I hear from a lot of leaders is this belief in being a servant leader, right? This premise of being a servant leader, and that's got like seven tenets to it. And so that's a great piece of a narrative platform, right? Like what does it mean to someone to be a servant leader and how are you shaping a team or growing a company in a slightly different way with a different lens than somebody else might be? So that's both like sharing who you are

but it's also providing value because you're giving other leaders or business owners that are listening or watching ideas of how they can behave as well.

Jeffro (12:58.532)
Yeah, it's kind of, it's a one-way relationship almost, or it feels that way, because it's not a conversation at first. know, people might silently watch your stuff for a while before they ever comment or reach out. And so you just kind of have to answer some questions that they might ask, right? And so that goes back to why it's important to know who you're talking to so that you can mix it up and make it feel like it's a more natural thing and not just a forced thing. Like I'm making content because someone told me to, right? Like I'm here to actually help.

Jess Jensen (13:26.637)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'll add, I mean, I know a little bit about the world that I think you play in, and I certainly have got experience too, but...

You know, when we think about the properties outside of sort of the social media properties or even podcasting, mean, obviously web is huge, right? Web search, all of their digital properties that matter so much to a business. Like this narrative platform work, this sort of defining your audience, all of this cascades across those, right? We would not want to show up in that way and this subset of digital and be totally different over here on like a corporate website.

And so to me, this is fundamental work that it might start in the social space in the beginning. And then as that person gets more comfortable, and again, the brand is aligned with the leader, we want to make sure that that's really a through line that's hitting all the digital properties so there's consistency.

Jeffro (14:21.859)
Yeah, that makes sense. So we're kind of nudging up to step three now, which is about creating content. So can you give us some examples of how to do that well?

Jess Jensen (14:31.711)
Yeah, I mean, this is where you start to kind of sharpen your sword, right? So you've decided who I'm talking to, you've decided what I want to stand for and kind of the topic areas or editorial themes. And then you, and then you need to start creating things. And again, in the beginning, and still today, I am such a believer in like,

get it 85, 90 % of the way there and ship it, right? It's never gonna be perfect. And there's so many people I talk to, I'm these LinkedIn audits right now, which has really been interesting, because I hear a lot of the same things again and again with all different kinds of people and all different parts of the country. And there is a definite fear of, you know, I don't either I don't know what to say, I don't look right. What if I make a fool of myself, you know, especially when you get into things like video, which feels like the bar is higher.

And so in number three, it's really, hey, let's pick one or two formats that do feel comfortable to you, right? Maybe that's just copy and still imagery for now. It's okay. It's great. Let's do that. And maybe we'll evolve eventually to like podcasting or video, what have you. And let's start to put stuff out. But again, always with the filter of, is this my voice? Is this how I would talk if I was in a conversation with somebody at a party or in a meeting?

Is this an image that I'm proud of that feels natural and appropriate to what I'm talking about? Continue to really bring your human self into that content because again, especially in the era that I'm sure you and your listeners are well aware, it is such a cacophony of mediocrity right now.

And it's just so easy to create a bunch of stuff that doesn't actually really represent you or feel like you. And so that would be the filter I would encourage. And that third step is do a pause and say, is this sound gonna look like me?

Jeffro (16:29.059)
Yeah. And again, this is, think, a really tricky thing for a lot of people because yes, it's easy to create content. You could even tweak the content that ChatGPG generates to make it sound more like you. But then periodically creating stuff that is just you, like the more personal side that's not related to business, it feels like there's such a disconnect mentally there that I think it's really hard to do that. because you don't know, like, okay, yes, I've been posting about websites and SEO and stuff.

And now I just posted a music video about LinkedIn, because it was fun and interesting. Totally unrelated. It's like, OK, are people going to think I'm less professional because of that? Or should I just go for it? Because I thought it was fun, right? I think that's such a hard thing to figure out.

Jess Jensen (17:15.213)
Right, so two things on that. Number one, I watched your LinkedIn music video and I loved it. So well done. I love your collaborator too. The other guy was on the screen, he's great. So I love that you did that. And I actually, and this is a great example. Like when I was doing my research before this interview, I was more excited to come talk to you after watching that LinkedIn music video, right?

Jeffro (17:19.518)
Okay. Thank you.

Jeffro (17:37.656)
Nice. Yeah.

Jess Jensen (17:39.563)
I mean, it softened you, it made you human, it made you real to me and I really enjoyed seeing that part. I the other stuff that you've done is great too, but like this was a little less expected and so it really, gave me a sense of your personality, which was lovely. So you were, you just literally, you exemplified what we're talking about with why I do that.

But two, to your point of like, it can feel kind of jarring to sort of be jumping back and forth. That's, think, why we need to do this strategy work upfront. Why we want to lay down on paper, so to speak, this sort of narrative platform, this sort of editorial plan, because we're upfront saying, okay, here's the blueprint. I'm going to talk about this, this, and this.

I'm roughly going to do it at this cadence. I'm probably going to focus on this platform and, you know, I'm going to try to over the course of 90 days, you know, optimize based on what I see being the most successful. You have a blueprint so that you're not feeling like it's random or ad hoc. You're really just, you're working your plan that you built in the very beginning. And then you're occasionally kind of fine tuning and iterating based on the feedback that you get.

Jeffro (18:51.297)
That makes sense because if you don't have the strategy, you might create stuff that gets impressions or even comments, reactions, but not necessarily clients and people that are wanting to reach out. And obviously some things are just gonna be for fun like a music video and get impressions, but that exposes you to more people who then see your other content, which might be related to a website and then the, okay, suddenly I'm interested because they have this sort of connection that you've created.

Jess Jensen (19:17.323)
Yes, well said.

Jeffro (19:19.307)
So you recommend starting on LinkedIn if people aren't sure where to start. Is that correct?

Jess Jensen (19:24.205)
You know, I do for the work and the clients that I tend to partner with. My audience of one, if you will. I I love a lot of the social properties for different reasons. But what's been interesting, I was just reading an article about this yesterday. What's been interesting is I have sort of instinctively felt over the last three years that LinkedIn has evolved.

It's really moved from that, like, it's a digital resume. You go there quite a year, right? Yeah. And I'm sure you felt that too. And so, and now you feel like there's thought leadership, there's interactivity. It feels like more of a community than it used to. Even silly stuff like video, they were the last social platform to even allow video. finally, know, finally that came on board. That changed the game.

Jeffro (19:51.6)
lot. Yeah.

Jess Jensen (20:11.3)
so I have really enjoyed watching that kind of grow up, if you will. and, I love that it's far more than digital resume. It's far more interesting to me. But the other thing that I was reading about yesterday that I didn't put two and two together, but it really resonated with me. Is I think besides LinkedIn itself, kind of reinventing and evolving, you know, when, when Twitter became X and there was a bit of an Exodus for a lot of people.

maybe still has an account, but maybe just doesn't spend as much time as they used to, right? The tech industry has always been kind of a lion's share, right? The journalism and the tech industry have been kind of the two lion's share verticals really that kind of dominated a lot of that conversation on Twitter slash X. And I think when a lot of them migrated, where they migrated to was LinkedIn.

So I think a lot of the kinds of dialogue that we might've been having seven or eight years ago, and the platforms work differently, of course, but generally speaking, I think those are happening more and more on LinkedIn. And the lovely part, at least in the network that I, the pool that I swim in, is that in general, LinkedIn is a bit of a kinder, gentler atmosphere. There's a little less.

drama there. And I also love that too. So for all the reasons, if a lot of my clients tend to kind of find themselves in either like I'm a small business owner founder or I'm a leader in the tech industry, both of those groups make a ton of sense on LinkedIn for the reasons I just explained. And also if it's a little bit of a just a more professional kinder atmosphere, that also

feels like another reason to spend time. I don't mean to say that digital is, you know, digital equals LinkedIn and there's nothing else. Of course, there's a lot of other spaces, but often my clients tend to want to start in LinkedIn and kind of get that dialed and figured out. And then again, in this step four, let's master that if that's your primary platform for your business. And then we can kind of, again, cascade that out to whether it's podcasting, Instagram, web, wherever else is important for you.

Jeffro (22:22.451)
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And I think a lot of it has to do with the reputation that that platform has. So if you were to say, let's start on TikTok, and they're like, don't like this, isn't that the dancing platform? And like, I'm a professional, but at least LinkedIn has the professional background for networking and everything. so people might, professionals can feel a little more comfortable starting there, even though the door has now opened to video and some of these other types of content that people are now posting.

Jess Jensen (22:47.894)
Totally.

Jeffro (22:49.278)
So let's talk about engagement too, because you've mentioned relationships are built in the comments. What does engagement look like when it's done right? Because obviously people hit the AI comment button sometimes and like, that's great, totally agree, but we want to go beyond that, right?

Jess Jensen (23:04.232)
Yes, of course. mean, like, you know, sometimes we're all in a hurry and like you just hit the, yeah, hit the hit the like button and call it a day. That last step is really a reminder that relationships are built in the comments. And again, I want to give credit. think Gary Vee said something very similar. Creative is in the comments and that kind of inspired this. So I certainly didn't originate this from scratch, but I've seen it to be true in my own experience as well. I'll give you an example.

You know, one of the marketing leaders that I follow and really enjoy is Frank Cooper, who is the CMO of Visa. And I mean, I have a Visa card. you know, I don't have any, I don't really, I don't really have a lot of feelings pro or con around Visa, like all good. But when he started publishing, I don't know how it ended up on my feed, I started paying more attention because he would write these sort of long stories, these narratives about his background. He's got this.

really wild diversity of things he's done before he was ever at Visa, worked for Def Jam Records and Pepsi, all kinds of stuff. He's interviewed, know, LL Cool J. Like he just has this really diverse, interesting story to tell. so I've commented a couple of times on his posts and last month he responded.

And he responded with a couple of sentences. And of course, right away, I'm like, this is so great. I love this. I'm sure it's your team, but thank you anyway. And he wrote back again. was like, actually, it's me. And I have no reason not to believe it isn't him. But I will tell you, the feeling that it gave me of like,

Jeffro (24:33.225)
Yeah.

Jess Jensen (24:38.282)
Here's someone who I look up to, who is at that level at a company that is well-regarded, gigantic, globally well-known, all those things. He's doing stuff I really admire. And for him to reply with a few sentences, not just a like, to what I said, made me feel seen. He's watching. He's there. He wants to be part of the conversation. So I just really encourage.

the clients I work with to, yes, publish, of course. I want you to be a content creator, but go in there, respond certainly to people that comment on your stuff, no question about that, and respond within 24, 48 hours, right? Keep the conversation alive, but also be generous. Show up and go into your feed, your home, and go onto other people's posts, and make comments, and ask questions, and give them love, because...

If we want it to actually be a community, it, I what social media once was 15 years ago, right? The whole idea behind it. Then we have to interact with each other. We have to actually have conversations. So I think from a sales perspective, it's actually even more of an opportunity. mean, yes, you can build relationship if you're a marketer, which is great.

But if you're someone who's actually trying to drive business development and actually build relationships that could be a part of a pipeline for you, which again, I think of the founders and small business owners that are listening, those comments are gold. If somebody comments on something that I did, I absolutely should respond and I probably should even go over to DMs and just say, thanks. Thanks for being there. Thanks for noticing what I did.

I'm not gonna try to hard sell them, but I'm gonna show that I noticed it and I'm gonna open the door to a little bit of a dialogue and who knows what that could turn into down the road.

Jeffro (26:24.881)
Yeah, well, that's being the human, right? Taking the next step to make the conversation two-way, especially going to the DMs or even if you stay in the comments. Now you can get their perspective and feedback and it feels a lot more natural. I think that's a great reminder. One last thing before we wrap up, want to touch on is, a lot of people might be hearing this and they're like, I don't have time to make all these videos and spend time commenting and things. I'm really busy running my business, but obviously...

Like your example of the CMO at Visa, he's making time for this. It's clearly there's a reason for it. And so do you have any guidelines for how much time someone would need to set aside to kind of do this well where it's not just the AI copy paste, but actually doing something thoughtful?

Jess Jensen (27:09.002)
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I struggle with this too, right? I'm running a business and sometimes the last thing I want to do is come up with my own content, right? It's the whole like, you put yourself at the bottom of that list. The way that I've begun to manage it is, number one, I notice when my brain is at its best from a creativity and conflict creation perspective. So for me, that's in the mornings.

Some people could be late at night. You know you, right? So pick an hour, hour and a half or whatever in a day part that is where you're feeling the flow. And then for me, what I try to do is I try to batch it. So I use Friday mornings, for example, from maybe 9 to 10 30.

I've also noticed like things for me, at least in my world are quieter on Mondays and Fridays, and they're real busy in the middle of the week. So I've kind of learned to kind of create a schedule where, okay, Friday mornings, I'm going to create maybe three posts. I batch them. I might even schedule them. If I don't want to do that, that's fine. I'll just hold onto them and then I can just do them one by one, you know, wherever you're at, all good. And then throughout the week, I'll go in there and I'll take a look and see what's going on and respond and engage.

But I don't spread out the creation throughout the week because it becomes too daunting and it just gets lost. those would be my recommendations is know when you're at your most creative, try to batch a couple things together and then you can kind of schedule them out. And then you can just touch base to sort of see what's happening with your community, but you're not having to think about coming up with something from scratch in the moment.

Jeffro (28:55.634)
because otherwise too much pressure. You got to relieve that pressure so you can be creative and get ahead of it a little bit. So I appreciate you walking through your framework and all these steps. know, there's obviously more to it. You can go a lot deeper. And, but this is so important. I agree. LinkedIn is also a great place for it as they've, they've been making changes to try and make this a better place that works for business owners to share content that's helpful and actually make important business development connections. So

If you guys are listening, please do this, right? You've heard us say it enough times. Work on your personal brand, set aside the time to create this content. Don't just pump out the AI generated stuff. Put some thought behind it. So if you guys are listening and you want a fresh set of eyes on your LinkedIn profile, I don't know, maybe you haven't touched it in five years, you probably got some things to fix. Jess is going to be doing some free autist this month. So do want to tell us about that?

Jess Jensen (29:49.972)
Yeah, sure. So if you're a listener of the show, I'd love to just pay it forward a bit. So if you go to copilotcommunications.com, that's my website, you go into contact, you'll see there's a place you can schedule time with me. And so when you book that time, just mention that you were a listener of Digital Dominance. And I'll give you half an hour of my time. I'll take a look at your LinkedIn and give you some actionable next steps and hopefully get you

get you feeling a little better about your presence.

Jeffro (30:20.849)
Awesome. Thank you, Jess. That's really helpful. Guys, do that. If you need help, not sure where to go. This can kind of help jumpstart you a little bit. And if this episode gave you something to think about, please take a few seconds, leave a review on Apple or Spotify. This helps more service business owners learn how to build their online presence in a practical and meaningful way. And if you know someone who would benefit from listening to this, please just share the episode with them. them the link. But thanks again, Jess. Thanks to all of you guys for listening. That's it for today. Take care and we'll see you next time.